This next week we are going to talk about Norway and Sweden -- two examples of socialist democracies in world politics. We will compare these two countries with the United States.
An important way that socialist democracies provide benefits to their citizens is through higher taxation. Look at this article, it compares taxation rates in the US with those in Norway between three examples. The Norwegian citizen pays 43.9% of their income in taxes, the two Americans paid considerably less: one paying 33% and the other paying 28%.
What do you get for all those taxes?
This short CNN video briefly compares the US and Norwegian healthcare systems. Here is what a transfer student who goes to Norway to study at a Norwegian university would receive -- full national medical care, which is the same for all citizens.
Similarly, as the final Sakai Discussion Forum's assignment indicates, work life in Sweden is of higher quality compared to the vast majority of countries around the world, including the US. Workers have several weeks of paid vacation yearly, a shorter work week, extended maternity leave, a better work-home life balance, and less stress because people have more time to enjoy their lives and less worry about their economic future.
In general, citizens of Norway seem to be happier (and here is a video too) than citizens in other countries -- and citizens in Europe and especially northern Europe with the more socialistic democracies are the happiest places on earth right now.
What do you think?
Would you agree to pay higher taxes if you had the guaranteed benefits that citizens of Norway and Sweden receive? Why do you support such a system or why do you oppose such a social welfare system? Do you think such a healthcare and system is even possible or desirable in America?
I kinda have mixed feelings about the video. Paying 44% in taxes is a lot but having full care of guaranteed benefits is amazing compared to what benefits we have in the US. I support it because they are about spending money on a large group of people rather than stupid things like the US does. I highly doubt a healthcare system like Norway is even possible or desirable!
ReplyDeleteNicole Ruane
PSCI 100:02
I feel the exact same way. I could see why paying for a higher tax, due to the fact that they would get free healthcare. To me that is a fair deal and that's why I support it. Sweden and Norway are overall happy and stress-free countries that offers good pay and caring for those who are ill without costing a dime.
DeleteAshley Cole
PSCI 100:02
It's difficult to imagine such a system ever taking off and becoming sustainable in the United States. Our method may not be the most effective, but there's no foreseeable method to breaking the mold we have here now in order to 180 the system to be similar to what they have in places like Norway or Sweden.
ReplyDeleteUltimately, I think I would suck up having to pay more in taxes in order to obtain better quality of life. As a college student about to enter the work force and higher education, I find my outlook within the American "democratic" system to be one of lots of trail and tribulation. I fear student loans, not being able to find a sustainable job or home, and expensive healthcare. Then again, if I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't necessarily have any of those problems, at least to the extent of what I'm (and millions of others) are or will potentially face here in the United States.
Casey DeHaven
PSCI 100:02
I can relate in the thought of the possibility of a system similar to what Norway or Sweden have is unrealistic just because of the picture the politicians have painted socialism out to be.
Delete-Jessica Fort PSCI 100: MWF 11-12
I would not want to pay a higher taxes because I think some of the benefits available can be good unless something drastic happens and is needed in extreme cases. I think healthcare could be possible in the US but when it comes to taxes it is different. When people are taxed the average citizens should pay less but people with more money or are wealthy passes 300,000 should pay a higher percentage.
ReplyDeleteJ.C. Mao-Alston
100:03
I would pay high tax for the benefits that come with it. It does have its ups and downs. for someone like me whos healthy, I don't need much healthcare to survive. but as a college student I would love any help I can get.
ReplyDeleteDanielle McManus
PSCI 100:02
I would pay higher taxes because the money is going towards the benefit of helping myself and others in such areas as health and sanity. We would have less to worry about if we payed higher taxes for these things because we wouldn't be worried about having sick leave or struggling to pay medical bills. I do not think that this system is possible in the U.S. because too many people do not want to pay higher taxes. They like the security of having more money in their pocket, but they may spend it on useless things, which doesn't help the nation in the long run...
ReplyDeleteCarleigh Underwood PSCI:03
DeleteI would pay higher taxes because I feel that everyone would benefit from it. Not only will everyone benefit but after awhile of paying the higher tax rates individuals, like with anything else will learn to adjust. Then problems that most problems that Americans have now won't be an issue. There would be less stress on everyone and therefore a better quality of life.
ReplyDeleteTyrek Collier
PSCI 100 :03
I would definitely pay higher taxes for free health care because I feel that it would even itself out. Throughout time the amount of taxes you would pay that would go towards healthcare would probably be the same amount one would pay for their health care on their own so there wouldn't be much of a gain or loss. Things would just stay the same. As you said in class today, people can live on $52,000 a year, especially if they dont have to worry about healthcare or saving for retirement.
ReplyDeleteMark McCormick
PSCI:03
I would not mind paying higher taxes if it guaranteed those benefits. A lot of people complain about how we pay high taxes now, but than complain about how crappy our welfare is. If people were informed about this, I think the majority of us could come to an agreement to pay higher taxes. I would rather have better healthcare and more vacation time than more money in my pocket. With the money in my pocket, I still cannot afford to take a vacation or pay for an ambulance ride, so I would rather have that money go toward something that will benefit me now and in the future. I want to live in a society where I know I will be taken care of, and not be as stressed. I believe everyone will be more happy if we paid higher taxes, especially if it meant we would have less stress on ourselves.
ReplyDeleteAmanda Malave
PSCI 100:02
I completely agree with you. I really would not mind paying higher taxes if it meant that I was guaranteed the benefits. I agree that our taxes are not as bad as others but it does suck that our taxes don't really benefit us as much as those of socialist countries. I wish that we had free healthcare and able to take an amazing vacation. Life would be so much better just saying.
DeleteThe health care system in Norway would not be possible in the U.S. People in the U. S. are too attached to their money. It would be hard for American to change their point of view. I think that a higher tax rate would be okay if I never had to worry about retirement of health care. I think that it may be possible for America to have something in the middle. We could develop a higher tax system and some of the social programs.
ReplyDeleteKayla Piechowiak
PSCI 100-03
But if we make Americans realize that if we fully adopted a healthcare system like Norway's we would be, in the longterm be spending less.
DeleteI don't agree with a full society of socialism, but as far as the actual question is concerned: would I pay more taxes in exchange for greater government benefits such as free healthcare, etc, than the answer is yes. I say yes not because of the personal exchange of my money for more healthcare, but because I think universally if we paid more taxes and the government actually used them well, everything would be better. Although when you look at our government expenditures, even better would be if our taxes just stopped being outright wasted on stupid wars. Norway and Finland and those other countries also are not paying huge amounts of money funding pointless wars.
ReplyDeletePete Sheehan psci 100:003
There seems to be a lot of people here who don't realize, that we, here in the United States, already have a single-payer heathcare system. It's about as good as Norway's healthcare system, and it costs about 20% less per person than private health insurance. It's called Medicare, and unfortunately it's only available to people over 65.
ReplyDeleteAs for all of the other benefits that residents of Nordic countries get, it really seems like they have realized something that Americans haven't realized yet: we don't need to work as much. We've had a 40-hour work week for a very long time, but we just don't need it anymore. Many people would be surprised to find out that manufacturing in the United States has actually been going up since the 1970's (seriously). The reason that manufacturing jobs have been decreasing in the US isn't because they're moving to China, it's because everything is made by robots today. Enough processes have been automated that we simply need less people to get the same amount of work done, but we insist on continuing the 40-hour work week. We used to have to have everybody working 40 hours per week if we wanted our standard of living to be high, but that's simply not the case anymore. I think that once we realize that the 40-hour work week is not necessary anymore, we'll finally be able to lower wealth inequality.
Alex Smith
PSCI 100:02
I agree with you about the 40-hour work week, at least that is more of a realistic step for the U.S. to take.
Delete-Jessica Fort
PSCI100 MFW 11-12
I think I would to be honest. It looks like they are having to spend much less on health care compared to the United States to begin with as well. Even though they have longer wait times, that is just for elective surgery and even then they will pay for you to go receive health care from other countries. I think that is brilliant. If its cheaper than what we have and just about the same efficiency then I am all for it.
ReplyDeleteAs for America. Americans are too misinformed and misguided at them moment to even accept something like this. They are still calling Obamacare "socialism." Until America becomes smarter and pulls there head out of it's ass and realize we are not number one and that there are countries out there operating better than we are and more efficiently; we will not see this kind of change for a long while.
I completely agree with what Matthew has said; until we as Americans become smarter we won't be able to handle a system like this. I think that the guaranteed benefits these countries are able to provide their citizens as a result of higher taxes is worth it. I personally would be willing to raise taxes to receive better health and living benefits.
DeleteHaley Smith
PSCI 100:02
I would most definitely pay higher taxes for free health care and guaranteed, paid vacations. I understand that this is socialism but with all the people in our society struggling to get health care because they can't afford it so they have to give up their retirement to afford health care. The benefits from this would be great in the long run because although taxes would be higher, you wouldn't have to worry about anything because the government would be looking out for you.
ReplyDeleteI would definitely agree to pay higher taxes if I had the guaranteed benefits that citizens of Norway and Sweden. Free health care, longer paid vacation, longer maternity leave, longer unemployment benefits, a shorter workweek, and quality education are certainly worth the increased taxes. I think the benefits of the improvement of the quality of life would certainly outweigh the disadvantages of a higher tax rate. I think such a system would definitely be desirable in America and could be possible if people were more willing to stand up for what they want and radically change their way of living.
ReplyDeleteKayla McFarland PSCI 100.03
Health care in the United States is way too important and way too much of the government income for it to be as easy as it is in Norway. Although we need a system like that,me personally wouldn't mind paying more taxes if it made for better health care especially if it came out of my check before I seen it. I like the thought of it but America couldn't do it because of the greedy people and the amount of money made for the government..
ReplyDeleteDominique Dixon
PSCI 100:03
I would agree to pay higher taxes for better healthcare. Being offered complete healthcare with top notch attention would benefit people way more than the system we have now. And for those who would argue that it's unfair, don't look at it as something that consumes a great part of your income. Instead, view it as a way to provide the best care for your family unconditionally.
ReplyDeleteI know America would not fall through with a policy such as this, but i do think it wouldn't be any worse than what we have.
Victoria Wilson
100:02
I agree that it would be hard to carryout such policy, but I do believe it can be done gradually. If Americans pay slightly more and taxes and see actual results such as better healthcare or education systems, they might just support higher taxes. The key is to slowly implement higher taxes and provide quick results to again support.
DeleteAlicia White
A lot of individuals have trouble with what quality of life they want and how they believe to approach it a greater quality of life. It's common thought that with higher taxes we will be robbed and the quality of life will decrease. But, with paying higher taxes we would be able to have healthcare for everyone, shorter work week, better education systems, etc... I know that to myself, a good quality of life is to have healthcare (without constant fear of payments/medical bills or being rejected for procedures), a work schedule that doesn't kill me, a good education, and being able to take care of my future family and also my current family. So if you ask me if I would pay higher taxes to have all these as guaranteed to me, I would say yes.
ReplyDelete-Jessica Fort PSCI 100 MWF 11-12
Personally I would pay more for guarenteed benefits simply because the fact that no person has any control of what can happen to their health. Any person can get in a bad car wreck causing a tremendous amount health care needed in order for that person to survive and live normally again. That is why I would rather pay more that way if an emergency happens the cost is not a personal responsibility. Remember that is only one instance. With the affordable health care act this type of care is desirable in America or at least TRYING to move in that direction. However do I think a healthcare system that would imitate one such as Sweeden or Norway would ever happen? I do not.
ReplyDeleteBen Howar
PSCI:100:02
I would be absolutely ok with paying higher taxes if it brought the benefits that it does in Norway. I think the people complain about the taxes getting higher here because it seems like less of the tax money is used to benefit the whole of the nation and is instead put into things that people might not agree with. If the tax money went completely to providing benefits for everyone, people wouldn't mind the taxes as much because they would be able to see what these high taxes go to and be directly benefited by them. It's proven that Norway's system works, and it's one of the wealthiest and happiest nations in the world. It's obvious that the high taxes aren't causing people to go poor in Norway, and this is also because of the fact that almost everyone has a job. If this higher taxing for benefits process went into place in the US, I don't think it would work as well here because of how much of the population is poor and unemployed. If everyone had a job and was able to contribute money out of their income for the benefits the government offered then I think it could work in America, but I think I'll just retire in Norway.
ReplyDeleteMatt Deal
PSC1 100
I would definitely agree to pay higher taxes if I received the guaranteed benefits as those in Norway in Sweden. Looking at my paycheck, I have the various taxes being taken out for whatever reason it may be. I don't feel like I have a say in what my taxes go towards. But in Norway, and Sweden, it seems for the most part, the citizens know where their tax dollars are going and it is benefiting them, as well as the country as a whole, for the better. As other people have said, it is one of the happiest countries in the world. If socialism was as bad as politicians have made it out to be, wouldn't they be way further down on the list? Obviously it's not a terrible thing. It greatly helps the working class and includes everyone. Even with evidence of it being a good thing and doing wonders for a country, I highly doubt America would adopt a system, or even just healthcare, like those in Norway and Sweden. It's been demeaned to pretty much the point of no return.
ReplyDeleteMegan Douglas
PSCI 100:02
I would definitely agree to pay higher taxes if the guaranteed benefits were the same, especially considering the higher pay rates in these areas. I think it makes sense that these people are happier and have less stress in their lives, and they are probably also healthier to be honest. The problem is that I don’t think there is any possibility of this happening in the United States. First of all, people in general are not very interested in what is going on in other parts of the world unless we are bombing someone or some royal person is getting married. Secondly, people run away screaming at the first mention of social anything. It would be really hard to get people to get past that knee-jerk reaction and actually listen and think.
ReplyDeleteKatelyn Amspacher
PSCI 100:03
I would pay more taxes if social programs were like those in Norway and Sweden. People in these countries could worry less about health care and education and enjoy life. It would be hard to raise taxes in the US because many already complain about the taxes. Americans see the taxes they pay but no return. If taxes were used for social programs that everyone could use, it would be possible to raise taxes.
ReplyDeleteBrenna Rose
PSCI 100.03
I agree. It is very difficult to implement high taxes on a country even if there will be many benefits. Going through the change will be hard because it is likely that Americans wont receive full benefits immediately, so they may think they are paying more and not receiving anything in exchange. They would have to begin reforming social programs and other things they plan on using the extra funding for almost before Americans start to pay more in taxes to assure them things are going to change for the better.
DeleteAlicia White
PSCI 100:02
If higher taxes benefitted the society that much then I think it would definitely be a good idea to pay higher taxes. People would not have to worry as much about being homeless. If people realized all the benefits that raising taxes would give us i think it would be possible to raise them.
ReplyDeleteKayla Motheral
I would easily pay higher taxes to receive the benefits that the citizens of Norway and Sweden do. Health care is so expensive and not many people can afford it. If the benefits were provided to people it would take a lot of that burden off their shoulders. Everyone would live a better life knowing that they're protected and have these types of benefits. I support this type of system because if everyone is happier and stress free it makes for a better country. People could live a way better life and that would be a good thing. It would be nice to have this type of system in America, but I highly doubt that it would happen.
ReplyDeleteBlake Johnson
PSCI 100:03
I think I am pretty much indifferent on having higher taxes or not. It definitely makes sense to have taxes at 50% and have the government provide so much support to those families that need it; however, it is not a fair system. As stated in class today, someone who makes a couple million is not going to want to cough up half of that just to help somebody else. People want as much money as they possibly can have. It has a sort of "Robin Hood" effect, which has it's ups and downs. On the other hand, it does seem like it would cause people to be happier. Citizens wouldn't have to worry about where they are getting their next meal from because the government helps them out, and I am a HUGE fan of less stress.
ReplyDeleteBrandon Smead
PSCI 100:02
You're right, greed is killing our country and it is horrible to know that these wealthy americans are just watching their country crumble around their selfish ways
DeleteI would be happy to pay higher taxes if our government used them in the correct way. people do not understand that tax money does go to good causes such as military/roads/schools. Loudon County is a neighboring county to my home town and is considered the richest county in the US. They are full of wealthy families who pay higher taxes. it goes to show that with higher taxes more can be done. Significant changes can be done. The Schooling systems are phenomenal and the entire area is just all around nicer. If more wealthy people agreed to pay higher taxes it would be a great start for this country
ReplyDeleteI myself, would definitely agree to higher tax rates in exchange for the benefits that a country like Norway or Sweden receive. Better healthcare, guaranteed paid vacation leave, better education, a shorter work week, and great unemployment benefits seems like it would be an easy choice for any country to make; however the United States government could never change it's current ways. Our system is so greedy, yet claims that it is here for the people when in actuality a system for the people would be one like Norway or Sweden's government.
ReplyDeleteShannon Lyons
PSCI 100:03
I would defiantly agree to this. If it is truly proven in sweden and Norway to work then yea id give it a try. I wouldn't enjoy paying even more taxes but if the benefits out weigh the taxes then its a great idea. If it really works for sweden and Norway then id be down to give it a try.
ReplyDeleteMike Reed
I think that if I had to pay a little bit higher of taxes than it would be definitely worth living in northern Europe because 1) I am Portuguese, so I would feel right at home and 2) the fact that the healthcare system here in the US is so poorly constructed and does not do its sole purpose is quiet unsettling for me. the fact that Obama himself said that the healthcare that he will enact will help america is a load of garbage because it has not done its job whatsoever. It has actually made the countries medical care even worse than it was before and if I can opt to go overseas to a European country to get better healthcare and other citizen benefits, I would definitely do it. And yes even though I would be paying a higher tax, northern European countries make you happier as a person. Now is this sort of healthcare possible, yes I do. If the country reorganizes itself and fixes the laws and taxes, than the U.S has the ability to get similar healthcare like Norway and Sweden.
ReplyDeleteI would most certainly pay higher taxes if I was guaranteed benefits like those that are in Sweden and Norway. It would take some getting use to but I would support a social welfare system like this because it would supply national medical care for every citizen which would help the lifestyles of most people. I do not think this system would be possible though in the states because everyone has such a negative connotations with high taxes and unlike Norway we waste so much money on defense. It would be hard to break away from this way of thinking here.
ReplyDeleteJoey Diaz
PSCI 100.03
I would be happy if this was implemented in the US only because the fairness of the taxation to all the citizens not just raising taxes that come down on harder on the poor people. I think everyone would benefit from this, the crime rates would drop drastically, unemployment would be low, and I would be happy if I had a shorter work week and full paid vacation. Full heath care benefits is always a plus especially if they are qualified doctors not some jackass that leaves a few towels in you after they stitch you up. I think it would be amazing to see America like this, but it would be even more amazing seeing the transformation. There will be a lot of bitching and complaining and real protesting. Not like the middle class protests, but rich people protesting and I could only imagine they would do it by putting a burden on their employees. I think America is too greedy to share their money with other Americans, even if it would mean a better life.
ReplyDeleteChelse O'Connor
I am absolutely in support of a system similar to Norway or Sweden coming to America, even including the higher tax rates. There is great inequality here in America and programs (and high taxes) like those in Norway or Sweden would significantly help to make the country more equal. I think it is possible to implement a system like this is America, however, it would face very steep opposition.
ReplyDeleteJoseph Smith
PSCI 100:02
I’m one of the 70 million Americans who doesn’t pay income tax. Again, doesn’t pay income tax. I have FICA/SS Tax and Medicare to pay. Why is it that I don’t pay income tax? Because my gross income is below the taxable rate, meaning I don’t make enough money.
ReplyDeleteLike 70 million other working individuals. If someone makes over 40000, they pay income taxes. I am getting benefits but not contributing. This is not to say that I have not contributed in the past. Do you pay income tax? Don’t confuse withholding as paying tax. All a withholding is, is that you are allowing the government to hold your money in case you do owe tax, and don’t be fooled, it’s not a refund. It’s just the gov’t giving your money back to you. I would be glad to hold a portion of your check each week to give back to you in a year. What’s really funny are these child tax credits. Somehow, of those 70 million people who have children who don’t pay income taxes somehow get a couple grand. So let’s figure this out. Don’t pay, get money. Where does this money come from? Hmmmm. The Printing Press? Nope, comes from those making over 40k. I know, I use to be one of those suckers. I hope all my classmates graduate no less than cum laude, get employment and make over 40k to support my poverty.
If we have socialism in this country, then it has produced me. Now if I had a government job, your money would pay my salary and if I made over 40k, then I would contribute to my salary via income tax, and I would elect the politician that promised me a raise each year, taking more money from you.
Every employed citizen pays income tax in Norway and Sweden and they pay a national sales tax (VAT), The US doesn’t have a VAT tax. I won’t even get into local taxes but it’s comparable to our system. For a socialist healthcare system? I wouldn’t want it, the best a government can provide is mediocre at best.
Our VA healthcare is OK and extremely bureaucratic. But I tell you what I would support and pay taxes for in relation to a healthcare system. I would allow my tax dollars to stay local, to send a student to medical school and when they graduate, they would work for a salary for 10 years and provide free health care to those who wish, want or need it locally.
I would be perfectly fine with paying higher taxes. It is proven through the tax systems in Norway and Sweden that it is successful. However, if im paying higher taxes they need to be going to things that I support. For example, if raising taxes meant that we had free healthcare and education I believe many people would support the idea of higher taxes. However, I do not believe we could just change to this system. People today complain about taxes we have, so I can only imagine how people would act if they were raised.
ReplyDeleteCara Mason
PSCI 100-02
I would definitely rather pay higher taxes if we got the same benefits that the people of Sweden do. The working world in Sweden is much less stressful than that of the United States. Many people hear about socialist societies and are immediately turned off by it because all they hear is "higher tax rates." I believe that socialism won't be possible in the United States anytime soon because people are so undereducated about it, when in reality, it could be what saves our economy.
ReplyDeleteKelsey Phelan
PSCI 100-02
I would pay higher taxes if the benefits were the same or better than the Norwegians or Swedish people. I support the idea because who doesn't want to live and long happy healthily life. Right now people in America would have to pay thousands of dollars to even lay on a hospital bed. Some people have to choose rather to buy medicine or buy food. People should not have that choice in the US.The US is the richest country in the world that means we should be the happiest and living better than the entire world, but sadly its not like that. I would defiantly pay more for less work hours, more health benefits. Change like this could happened in America, we just to educate the people how why its good to pay more for better things.
ReplyDeleteCarlos Amaya
PSCI 100
I would live in Sweden or Norway right now if i had the chance. The systems that are in place in social democracies such as these are run by the people and for the people. The political system of the United States is being run by the minority (the wealthy) and the majority's best interests are not being met. The FED controls the market and the wealthy have an insiders tip. A change is very unlikely without a revolution of the people. However, I would agree with higher taxation, better unemployment benefits, guaranteed paid vacation, paid maternity leave, to create greater equality. I would not mind paying higher taxes if the government provided for its' people.
ReplyDeleteI would pay for higher taxes like in Sweden. The benefits are a great package for the people. Here in the US people are struggling paying these taxes and in Sweden it seems like everyone is going along with the taxes.
ReplyDeleteI would like a Democratic Socialist system, I believe that a progressive taxation is what works for everybody. So far in the US the gap between the rich and the poor is getting bigger, and is not beacause of the middle or lower classes, but because of the rich being greedy. I don't think is going to ever happen in this country.
ReplyDeleteJanet Loue
PSCI 100-02
While I enjoy the democratic system that we have here in America, I would be interested in seeing what life is like in a socialist economy such as Sweden or Norweigh. It does truly seem like the citizens are much happier and I for one would rather be in a country that is happy than one that is constantly at war with each other. However, I feel that too much competition and too many obstacles exist in America for it to actually be successful. I feel there would be too much opposition and no one would be able to enjoy the benefits without someone having a complaint. I don't think it is desirable in America. I think most Americans are happy with the system that has been put in place and do not wish/are not looking to change it.
ReplyDeleteHaley Greene
PSCI 100:02
I think life in Norway would be great. I don't know why people are so afraid of a socialist way of life because it obviously works. I don't think America would ever get to that point, but I could us leaning towards something like so. I think it is a great way to include everyone as a citizen, I wouldn't mind paying that much because of all the great benefits I would be receiving.
ReplyDeleteDanielle Marple
PSCI 100:02