Last week we considered whether America could become a totalitarian state. There seemed to be a solid mix of views: some people said "yes," America could become a totalitarian state; some people said "no," America could not become a totalitarian state.
Sheldon S. Wolin, a professor of politics at Princeton University argues that America is already a kind of totalitarian state. In his book, Democracy Inc: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism, Wolin claims that the totalitarian politics practiced in America is very different than the totalitarian politics of 1930s and 1940s Italy, Germany, Japan, and Stalin era Soviet Union.
America is a managed democracy [read about it here and here]. What does this mean for America? Wolin boils it down to this:
1. A political-religious mythology was created around September 11 that had primarily Christian themes -- an encounter with evil, a loss of innocence, and redemption and salvation of the American national state. [Read about 911 Cross here]2. An immensely diverse American society was unified around the executive branch (the Presidency) and its ability to keep citizens safe from a common enemy that makes us insecure -- this form of totalitarian politics is independent of any particular leader, which means that both George W. Bush and Barack Obama are both part of the process. This does not mean that you have to like the President. This means that: American citizens expect the President to keep them safe and are generally fine with the President going beyond the law to accomplish this task.
3. Instead of mass political mobilization like the above images of Nazi Germany, an inverted totalitarian regimes aims to maintain the mass of the population in a persistent state of political apathy. The only political activity expected of the population is occasional voting. Citizens are unable to form into political coalitions outside of normal politics -- the mass of citizens are basically politically docile and politically inactive. Until the next election, citizens fade into the background of political decision making and focus primarily on their personal and private lives and desires.
4. This political docility and inactivity is combined with a special sense that Americans have about their selves. We imagine ourselves morally privileged. So, we take actions that are morally denied to others. For instance, the US government tried Japanese military personnel for war crimes because the Japanese soldiers water boarded prisoners as a torture technique during World War II. At the same time, the Bush administration authorized military personal to use water boarding, yet no one has been arrested or tried for war crimes and in fact the Obama administration has refused to pursue investigations of the Bush administration.5. Wolin argues that the inversion of democracy occurs when the chief executive (the US president) can carry out significant actions associated with totalitarian dictators -- for instance, when the President can imprison an accused person without due process and sanction the use of torture and assassination and not be held accountable to the rule of law.
What do you think?
Do you agree with any of the points above? Is America a managed democracy, which is a new kind of totalitarian government? Did September 11 become a mythological day for Americans? Are Americans morally privileged? To save ourselves, are all actions permissible? Should the President be able to break US law to keep American's safe? Or, are there limits to what the President should be legally allowed to do? Would you be willing to sacrifice your most cherished freedoms for security? Or is there a limit to what we as Americans will do in the name of security?
From the points above it would appear that America has some managed democracy or totalitarian practices, and I do agree with Wolin in that the government tries to keep its citizens docile. The government has no interest in making its people learn about what goes on inside the "secret club", people outside of our country have more knowledge of what goes on inside the American government then Americans do. All most Americans know is what they are taught in their government class in high school, if they remember that, and most Americans just don't care what goes on in politics as long as the majority like what the government is doing and they voted for the "winning" side as it were.
ReplyDeleteThe government likes to tell its people what will make its people happy and with all the story telling the true tale gets lost. A handful of people tried to attack America for reasons that can only be speculated and Americans were told that they were terrorists and that there were more of them out there and we would kill them, without thinking about all the American men and women of our own country that would be sacrificed in the process. The definition of terrorism is a violent act for political gain, so didn't America become terrorists as well upon engaging in the barbaric acts that we did? The government started using the tragedy of the 9/11 attacks to justify what it was doing in a "war", and they used the fact that the people WE attacked fought back to keep the war alive. The terrorist attacks gave America a reason to do what its always been good at, taking what doesn't belong to them and killing people in the process.
Americans have this desire for all countries to be "free" like we are and most find the fact that they do things different in their countries barbaric and we want to change that. So Americans go in tell every body what they have been taught and what they love is wrong, because for a country to not want to be like America is wrong in the eyes of our nation. So we take away their beliefs and the "freedoms" that we say they should have so they can be just like we want them to be. Its their country, its their freedoms, they should be aloud to do what they want without having others oppose what they do. I think the fact that Americans think that it is ok to force other countries to live like we do does make us morally privileged, however wrong that is.
Sarah Barry
PSCI 100.04
(continued)
DeleteMuch of the actions of the president and the rest of the government is kept from the majority of common knowledge. Most of what Americans are allowed to hear is a well rehearsed speech that is designed to keep Americans from thinking about what is going on. So if the president does break the law most wouldn't even know, and now that we have the label of terrorist to place on anyone we please the president has more freedom to kill whoever he pleases and most Americans are ok with what ever the president says is best for the country. This allows him the freedom he wants because no one will stand up to him, either they are to complacent or to scared of the president taking more authority then he is allowed. Much of the government relies on its people trusting what it does and believing that they make the best choice for the states, but they are often given to much freedom to do what they please, and most Americans are fine with allowing the government to do what they want as long as as they get an answer like; it was for security, or he was a terrorist, a little whitewashing makes Americans happy, and as long as the majority of America is happy the people that try to make other see what the problem is will be brushed under the rug. The government has to much power over its citizens and it abuses that power to gain power over other nations and wealth for themselves. The government doesn't care about its people it cares if its making money, and controlling what it wants, as long as the government is happy its people are safe, from its government. If the leaders that are appointed to lead use their power to scare and manipulate its people then they are dictators, our government does control us and not a sole cares.
Sarah Barry
I agree with several of the points mentioned in the post, especially the one which stated American's are extremely docile when it comes to the political process, minus voting. I believe there are many signs which can point to our country being a managed democracy. The lack of "everyday-citizens" in the day-to-day political process, personally, makes me very uneasy, as I tend to wonder what always goes on behind closed doors of our government. I believe if one is acting in self-defense, all actions are permissible. When it comes to keeping the majority of U.S. citizens safe, I believe the U.S. President should be able to break whatever laws necessary. Lastly, I would be willing to sacrifice my freedoms for security. If giving up all of my security means keeping me alive, then I would be willing to do so, because I would rather be living with no freedom and security, than absolute freedom and no security.
ReplyDeleteTrevor Phadden PSCI 100:04
yes the president should be able to break laws. they are educated enough to know what they are doing.... we elect the president. i am in the military and would like to depoly so i can do my part for my country instead of talking about it i would rather do something about it.iraq needed our help to be free and yes we get their oil but i do recall eveyone one i know complaining about gas prices and if we dont take theirs we will pay more and then people would support bush's choice when it effects them personally.
ReplyDeletecody whetzel 100.05
First off I would like to say thank you for doing your part for our country by joining the military. But, at the same time I have to disagree with your views of our war in Iraq. Most of the people in Iraq did not want our help in the first place. I have seen many interviews of the people living in Iraq who have been surrounded by this war. Our military has destroyed their homes and killed many innocent people in order to achieve its goals. They have said that while they do not agree with what the Taliban is doing, they at least are kinder and more fair to the people of Iraq. I understand that this is not meant to be a discussion of the war in Iraq, but my point is that we were not asked for help, and we have no other reason for deploying troops in their country. Also, you say that Americans complain about gas prices and how we will take gas by force from Iraq. Is gas really worth the death of thousands of our own soldiers along with an even larger amount of dead Iraqis? It all goes back to our political leaders keeping the country in the dark about what is actually happening, and making us believe that our actions are justified.
Delete^Trevor McClain PSCI 100.05
DeleteI dont think america is a managed democracy. I think it is okay for the president to break laws if it is to protect our country and its citizens. We elect this person so we obviously trust him/her and if he were to do anything against our own country then theres lots of people in congress and everything that would have him gone from that position. I do agree that most things that happens in the governement or with the president is not told to the american people. they only tell us wat we want to hear which is okay because i really dont think everyone wants to hear EVERYTHING because that could cause chaos. For me and my family to be protected i would give up some of my freedom. I mean i wouldnt give up living my life the way i want but security is very important.
ReplyDeleteTim Hoover PSCI 100.04
I dont feel american is a managed democracy. I agree with Tim i feel the president should be allowed to break laws that keep protecting our freedom. I would give up some of my rights so that we can keep a close eye on those who need watching. I have nothing to hide from the government nor would i care if certain laws were enacted taking some non impacting freedoms. The presidents does these things to keep us happy. We need not know all the details becasue it takes swift action to do certain things. If he paused the world to tell everyone his moves it would be too late. Americans need to chill out and stop being so quick to bitch. I feel that america has so many of these... and im going to stereotype... hippie,tree-hugging, liberal artsy, anti governement complain about everything kind of people.. i honestly cannot handle it. I just think again everytone loves to create problems and loves complaining.. Hence why i joined the military. I dont regularly like most people and thier viewpoints. There needs to be some crazy people in this world to make others safe. Take away the military... end war.. see how many hippies then would say PEACE when terrorist cells destory our nation from within and foriegners attack us on our own soil.. Its a dog eat dog world people...
ReplyDeletethis comment will be short...because i find this incredibly disconcerting...its every bit the truth. its a clever way to strengthin the power of the government while making the people feel they have some control over most things. its pathetic really, but noone reading this truely believes we could overhaul the policies. michael ray farris 100.4
ReplyDeleteYes i do agree with points 1 and 4 because in point one September 11 is the day this country change how we see the government system in other countries under terrisom. Now since that day past people are more tightly security with there actions out in the public. In point 4 our US imagine is overrule by the world we see ourself having the most knowledge of whats right and whats wrong, we also seem very smart with our government actions and personal. Nobody get outrage in this country and start a war all because of an election or a law we are such a patience country with very smart idea people living in it. In a way we are morally privlieged with our smarts because we have a great educational system in the US compare to other countries in this world. If the President has to break laws just too keep American safe then i believe this is the right action he should take because our coutnry depends on our protection not only from the military but formost the prsident, he calls the shots, and he is the one we have to trust and overlook with our war actions in a demcracy way. I myself would sacifice what anything in my position for freedom for security because I would rather live as long as I can with the stuff around me to live I want to be able to live in an establish free enivironment and the USA I feel is this kind of place to live in. (Brennan Fanning PSCI 100.03)
ReplyDeleteI agree that America is a managed democracry and i agree on some of Wolin's points.The governement is not a perfect system, but tries to portray itself like it is by keeping holding the truth from the press. Not all actions should be permissible and the president should not be allowed to break the law to keep American safe. The president should be limited on what he can do and i am not willing to give up my freedoms for security.
ReplyDeleteBianca Redmond 100.4
I definetely think that America is a managed democracy. That is an interesting parallel to bring to 9/11 and I really do think that it shows how the event was immediately political in nature and the government used it to steer us into a stronger state and weaker individual freedoms. If we were not a managed democracy, then the government would not need the gigantic surveillance array that can watch every person in the entire country and listen in on every conversation.
ReplyDeleteEven when the government changes political parties, and different parties come to power, nothing really changes. The system stays the same. The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor. The system does not change. Only surface things change so that we can be distracted and fight about those while the people who have the real say just keep on doing what they're doing.
I don't think that it has gotten to the point of outright totalitarianism, but it definately looks like the USA could be heading that way.
Andrew Seaman. 100.03
Don't drink the Kool-Aid. Beware 2000. The end is coming May 21st, 2011. Oh wait, I meant October. Or perhaps it's December 2012. No, it's totalitarian America.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we live in a totalitarian state. North Korea is a totalitarian state; we saw this evidenced in ample detail today. In America we enjoy countless freedoms, yet we love to cry out about our rights (or what some less privileged folks might call "privileges") being trounced upon. I don't mean to say that self-criticism isn't important - it's the reason our country functions. However, comparing our sufferings to the abominations that are taking place in other parts of the world is reminiscent of a child with a scrape saying that he is in the same state as a child with cancer. Do you put disinfectant on the scrape and hope it heals? Yes. Do you start bouncing up and down and saying that this scrape might become cancerous?
Our democracy is somewhat managed - there are powerful political machines at work. And yes, people are complacent. I do not, however, believe that is the work of the government; it's the responsibility of people themselves to be involved in their surroundings. To be a part of a community, you must do just that - be a part. We have been given the incredible gift of being able to vote for our leaders. So why do so few vote? People are complacent; not because the government makes them so, but because they contentedly ride along happily oblivious to the world. They do not feel the effects of world-shattering events - it's just another depressing news story. More on this later.
As every nutritionist knows: everything in moderation. There is a limit to everything, and I don't pretend to know what it is. Of course we don't want to give up too many freedoms, but to a point, I don't think it's unreasonable to take a few sacrifices upon oneself (like standing in security at the airport) for the sake of protecting everyone. Again, to be a part of a community, you must BE a PART. Not to mention that it's these kinds of inconveniences alone that awaken the population to the political climate, that make them realize what is happening in the world. Perhaps it's these same inconveniences that get people to finally, mercifully take advantage of that - again - gift: the right to vote. Perhaps they help us as much as hurt us.
So where is this all going? Yes, we have made some sacrifices and yes some aspects of our democracy are "managed" so-to-speak. But mostly the only thing holding us back is OURSELVES. Saying that it's the government's work, that we live in some kind of totalitarian state, is just more doom-saying. We are perfectly capable of making changes. But first we have to wake up.
Ian Karraker PSCI 100.05
I do believe America is a managed democracy. I agree with some of Wolin's points. I do not think that the president has the right to break laws just to keep us safe. I would not be willing to give up my freedoms for the president to keep us secure.
ReplyDeleteTyler Messersmith
PSCI 100.03
i do believe that America is a managed democracy and i agree with some of Wolin's points. it is evident that Americans see on the news what the government wants use to see. therefore we have certain views and various matters. i do believe that, that form of control is an unconscious way to manage the democracy. whether we realize it or not. there are also other underlying actions that the government performs to shape a certain society. if we as citizens step back and look, we would realize that we are a managed democracy. given it is not an extreme totalitarian government but it is some form. i would not be willing to give up my freedoms for a sense of security. look at what happened in Korea, yes they secure but they have absolutely no freedom.
DeleteAmanda James 100.04
I think those are all valid points, however, America is a managed Democracy. In my last post I said America was capable of being Totalitarian and i still agree with that, there is still plenty of time for the government to change. Our country still shows signs of Totalitarian government, but we just happen to have a lot more freedom than real Totalitarian countries. Our president should have the right to break laws if it will keep the citizens safe. We already have given up some of our freedoms to the government but I would be willing to give up some of my freedoms for security. I am not one that really speaks up about political views or parties so of course it wouldnt be a problem for me to ensure my safety.
ReplyDeleteJenny Cavey PSCI 100.04
the president should have to live exactly as we do to get the full effect on how other people in the community live. I think it would be a life lesson to the government.
ReplyDeleteLatavia Smith 100.05
I think Americans do have a moraly privledged because we control most of what the world does and I think of America as politically untouchable because no one has tried our government while we have tried other countries governments. I don't think that the president should be able to break the law to keep us safe though because we cannot break the law if we feel we are in danger so neither should people in authority be able to. People with authority should even be held to higher standards when normally they aren't only in their social life.
ReplyDeleteEllen Sassaman PSCI 100:04
I think after 911, Americans have opened their eyes to a whole new world. By always thinking that we were safe and no one could harm us, but that was changed when 911 occurred. Now everyone lives in fear. We live in fear by wondering when the next terrorist attack is going to happen or will some building get blown up. We talked in class today by saying if you want to become president then you should of least serve in the military or army for a year. These presidents think they know what they are talking about when they want to send soldiers to war, but they have no idea. I know for a fact that I have no idea how harmful it can be to a person that just got back from wars, but hearing some of the stories that my family tells me is crazy. I think that the president should not break a law. If I knew that our president was breaking a law, then I would think it would be alright if I broke the same law.
ReplyDeleteBeth Haymond
PSCI 100.05
It amazes me that American's get so strung up when they hear about Countires under totalitarian rule like North Korea when the people of American don't even know what the government in their own country is even really doing behind their backs. I think that even though the attacks of 9-11 were horific greater acts of injustice happen almost daily and no one cares to ackwoldege them much less do anything about them. But the fact that it it happend on our soil it must be some other outside force that must be brought down. I think that Americans should not be given so much power in oppinion unless they truly stop to awknowledge what is really going on around them.
ReplyDeleteHayley Glover
PSCI 100.05
America really could go either way, under the right president, or no president, we could become completely crazy with no economy, no rules, no safety, or we could continue to be prosperous, as some have the money to keep the entire country running on their own. We could also become a totalitarian state under the right rule. When we, as a country, are fearful for our safety, we do group together, similar, although not in the same depth as North Korea, we follow what our president decides, we become all about freedom, and give up some rights for the country. So I do see both sides, but in reality chances are we will stay the same, with pretty democratic rule, and our small issues will continue to stay on the back burner to "aiding" other countries.
ReplyDeleteBrittney Mercer
PSCI 100:05
I think that without an economy our nation would go insane. I don't think that people are capable of feeding themselves or taking care of themselves if it is not handed to them on a silver pladder. I think that 9/11 has become a mythological date in our history because it brought our nation together. Today we respect that date and is referred to often in our society still today after 10 years. I personally feel that if the United States is in such a threat that our president has to invade our privacy and do whatever means necessary to protect the citizens. I think that it is fair for our nation for him to use his power to protect the whole.
ReplyDeleteTyler Beard
PSCI 100.04
I think that America does show signs of this inverted totalitarianism, like the point that Woldin makes about U.S. citizens kind of just hiding away from politics until it comes time to vote for a new President or Senator, and it doesn't help that the American people have been lead to believe that their voice doesn't matter when our voice is what can move this country in the direction it needs to go.
ReplyDeleteAlthough 9/11 was a huge tragedy it was blown way out of proportion and we were forced to belive that the country was attacked, when really it was just the city of New York that was attacked. The action of destroying those two buildings created this huge amount of paranoia that we would be attacked again and so in our fear we have looked to the President to fix everything and keep us safe. Also in our fear I believe that we have come to be ok with the President being just a little bit above of the law, which I believe is wrong and that know is above the law.
As far as sacrificing freedoms go I believe that in a time of war that we should not give up our freedoms, because those are our rights given to us by the Constitution and they should never been taken for granted or just taken from us as U.S. citizens. By giving up our freedoms we are pretty much giving the government the go ahead to basically run our lives.
Greg Woodward
PSCI 100.04
I agree with some of the points above that Americans do expect the president to keep themselve by any means at time but yet alone they still want there voice heard and felt through the nation. America is a democracy plain an simple not a new kind of Totalitariansm because once your four years are up its time to go. there is a process a due process and America will not be manhandled into that type of system. 9/11 was not a mythological day in my eyes its just a day you lost alot of loves once and family that meant dear. We are very privileged individuals besides all the wrong we do are nation thrives and people come to are nation because the way we carry ourselves. Iw ill be ablo to cherish what im giving up now for the security i have because i have the god given and legal right to protect myself and for those who cant there are people who can but i beleive that is a person decision .
ReplyDeleteI agree with all of the points above. I think Americans preach about freedoms and democracy while the government is slowly becoming more controlling. I agree that it is a very very mild form of totalitarianism, and it's only going to get worse I think. I am a person of equality. I don't care if you're the President or the Pope, we all should be treated equally and have the same restrictions. I don't think it's okay for the President to break laws for the sake of "security", and I especially don't think it's right for the government to kill people they think are threats without holding a trial for them. I am most certainly not willing to give up my freedoms for security. I've gotten myself this far in life, and I can get farther without the help of the government watching everything I do and everything other people do. I value my freedom of speech the most, and that is something I am not willing to give up for anything. Unfortunately, I think most people would be willing to give up their freedoms for security. If that's the case, they can have their security, and I'll take my freedoms.
ReplyDeleteHannah Piper PSCI 100:04
I do not think that we are leading into a totalitarian government at all becuase our government does not control every aspect of our lives. I do think that September 11 became a mythological day for Americans because everyone remembers this day and I do not think that people will ever forget what happened on that day. I think that the President should be allowed to break laws to protect us. The president does not just break laws to break them, but it is in the best interest for the country. I do not think that we should sacrifice all of our freedoms, but I think that there is a line in dealing with that issue. It is not okay to take over the papers and tv stations, but some freedoms can impose what I believe is a threat to me and I would be upset about that too. Either way you cannot possibly make every single person happy.
ReplyDeleteShelby Knepper
PSCO 100.04
I beileve that it may be possible that we are a managed democracy. As you pointed out this is a specific form of totaltarian goverment that does not go as far in extremes and is closer to the inward of the spectrum. The points made are valid and truthful. I still don't think that we are actually there yet but that these are indicators that we are having problems. As a democracy we can fix them before they get out of hand. I do not beileve that the President should do whatever he wants. I think that he should at least have some committe or board aprove his actions beforehand. This system will help keep America as it is. We do need to scrifice a bit but not as much as we have recently and problems with our system started way before 9/11 we were just to blinded, or not born yet to see them.
ReplyDeleteJoan Conte PSCI:100: 05
It seems we are a managed democracy, it is not as extreme as other totalitarian systems but since September 11 it seem to push in that direction. We are privileged but not completely, and now if someone be leave in something strong enough they think laws do not apply, this includes the president. The president should not be allude to break the laws on a hunch or a whim, and I would fight to keep what laws I still have. There are no limits to what people would give up to feel safe if they dont know what they are giving up.
ReplyDeleteStephanie camacho PSCI: 100.03
I would argue that Wolin has some valid points about America being a managed democracy. September 11th did create this kind of political-religious mythology that created a religious enemy. People who practice Islam are often discriminated against and looked at as inherently evil, simply because of all the negativity surrounding the 9/11 attacks. I think this ties into the idea that Americans believe they are morally superior. While we do have great political power, we as humans are no more inherently superior than a person of another culture or background. Wolin also makes a valid point about the apathy people have towards politics. Many Americans ignore political matters until it is time to vote. Then they go to the polls and vote and have no clue what the candidate they are voting for is promoting. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that multiple Presidents have broken the law and ignored due process rights, which should not be acceptable. While I would not go so far as to label the United States as completely similar to a totalitarian government, I would definitely agree that it is far from a true democracy and that people are unaware of this shift toward a more managed democracy.
ReplyDeleteHeather Webb
PSCI: 100.03
I feel as though that us in America is a managed democracy which is what Wolin was explaining in his points. I think that 9/11 was a mythological day for us as well, every since that day it seems like they are trying to turn us into a totalitarian with certain forms of freedom. When it comes to breaking laws to better our country that is okay for the president but only in that instance. After the discussions we had in class this week i would rather have some freedom over security because as seen in that short film i don't want to be brain washed and be a robot. I would want some security but not 100 % because with that you would have no freedom at the end of the day.
ReplyDeleteAndre' Makell PSCI 03
Wolin does provide some very powerful and valid points about America. And that it is a democracy. I don't think its as serious as a totalitarian type of government. The 9/11 attacks did create mythology that all Muslims or Pakistans are terrorist and a lot of Americans today still do not trust them. America is a society that we live in and people think they are above every other outside Country and religion. Americans are very self centered people. If the government of the United States where to turn totalitarian many people would go crazy because it would take away one's individuality.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Mckenzie
PSCI 100-03
I do believe that America is a managed democracy. Ever since 9/11, the government and the President has had more control over the citizens of the United States. The President should not be able to break US law to keep us safe, that would move us toward totalitarianism. I am also not willing to sacrifice my freedoms for security.
ReplyDeleteJoseph Waters PSCI 100.03
I can see where Wolin is coming from, and when you get right down to it we are very close to being a managed democracy. Yet, I don't think we are quite there. We as "Americans" boo-hoo if the government gets too involved with our "freedoms and rights." So I don't believe that we will ever get to be a completely managed democracy or a totalitarian government. However, I do agree with some of the others in our class when I say that I think the president should NOT have the authority to break the law. Because: 1. When he is no longer the president, he is an American citizen just like you and me. He looses his authority and becomes "normal." 2) That authority is only associated with his title, so I do not think that he should be able to put people away without their due court hearings and I do not think he should be able to carry out an assassination.
ReplyDeleteSorry, forgot to title myself.
DeleteMegan Casteel 100.05
Do you agree with any of the points above? I believe people certainly do get patriotic and wave the flag and then go around saying how American politics sucks. I also believe people expect the President to keep them safe from harms way regardless of what action is taken unless it is not in their best interests and takes from their "freedoms." American is certainly partial to many of the points made. September 11th has become a mythological day as a day for "We the people" to come together as a nation and say we looked the face of terror in the eyes and say "we will survive regardless of the evil placed before us." In class, we continuously talk about our freedoms or rights and liberties and what we would sacrifice in the face of the nation and our unity. I often do not understand what my personal rights and liberties are with such back and forth thinking presented to me, nor have I ever considered how politics effects me on a day to day basis until taking this class. Would I sacrifice my freedoms for security? Maybe, not like in North Korea and its Totalitarian rule. But it is a certain possibility. Sacrifice as an individual for the sake of many.
ReplyDeleteBlaine G Gibson
PSCI 100.04
I agree with some of the points he made. I do not think that the President should be able to break the law to protect the American people. There has to be a limit on what he can do. I would not be willing to give up my freedom for protection. North Koreans have great protecion, but no freedom. I would not want to live like that.
ReplyDeleteAmber Ugorji
PSCI 100.04
Wolin had some very strong and valid points about America and our society. I feel as though the government is trying to make America a managed democracy because of the certain rules they are trying to take from America.
ReplyDeleteTrevon butler
DeletePSCI 100.04
As Americans, we already give up freedoms for security. After September 11, people were even more willing to give up some of their freedom for security. With the way that effected the country, I think the President would do anything in his powers, whether it is legal or illegal, to prevent another tragedy because all the blame would fall on them. So the managed Democracy has some Totalitarian features but doesn't resemble it completely.
ReplyDeleteDeandre Montgomery
PSCI 100.04
I do agree with all of the above points; so, if that is the.description of a managed democracy, then, yes, I do believe america is a managed democracy. September 11th definitly became a mythological day in modern/current america. I also agree that americans act with a sense that we are morally privileged. However, I.do believe that the.president should be able to break the law whenever he feels needed. Id like to think that I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my most cherished freedoms in the name of security... But I've never been that scared so I really don't know what I'd be willing to do or what all of america would be willing to do either. I hope that there is a limit, but I just don't know.
ReplyDeleteNikki-Lynn Lloyd
PSCI 100.03
The president shouldn't**
DeleteI do agree that America is a managed democracy. I also agree that September 11th was a mythological day in modern america because most Americans had never experienced a devastating event in american history. I do not feel that the president should be able to break the laws whenever he wants. I wouldn't sacrifice my freedoms for security under any circumstances.
ReplyDeleteNick Mullican PSCI 100.04
I agree completely with the point that sometimes the presidents go beyond the power that they are "supposed" to have and take actions that they have no right taking.... in a very totalitarian manner.... for example, the torturing of suspected terrorists and the imprisonment of U.S. citizens without due trial. I think that America is on a fine line between a managed democracy and new Totalitarianism, and that one major negative event in America's future may very well topple us over that line. I do not think that September 11th became anything as extreme as mythological... however, I believe that American's have a sadistic (or rather, masochistic) desire to prolong the effects and damage of that moment in time. That event as become our fuel and justification for much of our countries actions. I do not think that Americans are morally privileged and that all of our action are permissible. As far as I am concerned, we have laws and constitutions for a reason, whether I personally believe in them is not the point. The country is run my men and woman who have constructed their careers around those laws and constitution so they are obligated to obey by them. To defy what you protect is against everything I believe is right.... this includes the actions of the president. If he thinks it is in the interest of the country to go against a certain law, he should consult the country on such a matter. There are certain rights I would never sacrifice. Security is highly overrated when compared to personal freedom and I think that most Americans would rather sacrifice a little security in order to preserve their ultimate freedom.
ReplyDeleteChelsea Lemley PSCI 100.05
I agree with many of the points that Wolin makes. I definitely agree that American's are extremely docile when it comes to politics.I think we are almost afraid to act out at times because we do not want to be punished by anyone for these actions. That to me sounds a lot like a totalitarian or authoritarian government. As far as the president breaking laws, I think that there should have to be approval from the other branches of government. They will usually approve of the president's decision though because they are all upper class individuals and can't really speak for us in the middle and lower classes.
ReplyDeleteRyan Miller
PSCI 100:04
I agree with the point that American citizens expect the President to keep them safe and are fine with the President going beyond the law to accomplish this task. I believe that the things that the President has done to protect us such as the undercover surveillance, does show characteristics of a totalitarianism government but that does not mean that we are one. I think people would give up a little bit of their freedom for security but not all of it because they cherish their freedom to much.
ReplyDeleteJordan Dixon
PSCI 100.04
The feeling of safety and security comes from putting faith and trust in a system in which the checks and balances are easily over-looked or overstepped. During the G.W.Bush administration anyone and everyone was willing to look past the rules and regulations set for both the Executive Branch and the military. As long as we were not or are not attacked on our sovereign soil, then whatever protection or subversive actions that are taken, as long as it is not one of our "privileged" citizens that it is being done to, is perfectly admissible.
ReplyDeleteWith the many accusations of the inhumane punishments that goes on at the "secret" base in Gitmo, there are numerous others that go without being reported. We call ourselves Americans and the Statue of Liberty has "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,..." but we deny those who try to come here both legally and illegally because we are afraid they are bringing something terrible with them.
There comes a point where we have to stop and realize that the President, his cabinet, and those that WE as American's have placed in power are PEOPLE, not super-hero's. Should they be allowed to break the law? Should they not be held accountable? What will happen, "Oh, I'm in trouble with the law. WAIT!! I'm in charge of the whole country...I'll just go to my office and pardon myself." We placed those individuals where they are and put our faith and trust in them that will be doing the right thing for our country, and for us.
Our role as "police" is every 2-4yrs when elections are held. We continue to let the person doing the job do it...or we put someone else in place who could do better...or could do worse.
GJF
Politics&Government 100
I recently saw a movie called "Safe House" that was a prime example of how the government can do pretty much whatever it wants (the movie included water boarding) to accomplish what it wants. I think that we allow the President, and government in general, to act- even against morals- because it has so much power. The whole reason for the establishment of America was because Britain and its monarchy had too much power. The Constitution was created to prevent the government from gaining so much power, yet we're very passive about the fact that our own government breaks so many laws. I think the reason is that, as long as it doesn't directly affect ourselves or our family, we simply do not care.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said- the President should not be able to break laws in the name of security. I think we're neither totalitarian, nor democratic. Also, I can say that I wouldn't give up cherished freedoms in the name of security, but truth is, I give up freedom each day for security without even thinking twice.
Brittany Custer
PSCI 100.04
I agree with the fact that people believe that the president should keep them safe. But in a way i feel as if we deserve a little bit of privacy. As a country there are so many different way of survalence that almost anything you do or say can and will be tracked.In a way we are almost a totalitarian government undercover.
ReplyDeleteHanna Wharton 100:04
I believe that America is a pretty well-managed deomcracy. I also think that although it may make things "unfair and unequal" I do think that the President should be able to break the law in order to keep citizens safe. However, it also depends on how the law is broken, the circumstances that it are broken, and also the definition of 'safe' is different for everyone. Because of this to some citizens they may find it acceptable if they are safe but if others do not feel 'safe' than they will disagree and accuse the President of breaking the law. I don't really think its possible for everyone in the US to feel completely safe. I most definitely think that Americans are morally privileged, especially after watching the documentary on North Korea. Often times laws are changed due to actions and experiences of events to make things "more just and fair" for everyone. We have a lot of opportunities and I guess you could say "freedom". Although we talked about in class how we don't have as much freedom as we think, and that there is a lack of privacy at times I think most of it is necessary in terms of safety. I do think that there is a limit of how much people are willing to give up for security and safety and because of this we will not be a totalitarian government.
ReplyDeleteMichelle Sentinella PSCI 100.05
I feel that the actions taken by the government such as extensive surveilance, are a little weird to think about, but are also neccessary. To be safe, it needs to be done to help prevent other events like 9/11 from happening
ReplyDeleteBrandon Coffey
PSCI 100:04
I feel that my generation has grown accustomed to the fact that we are being monitored 24/7. With this being the age of technology and such progression, things like the Patriot Act are viable options for insuring the safety of the citizens of America. And with attacks like 9/11, higher proactive safety is seen as a necessary evil.
ReplyDeleteAmerica is a managed democracy. We chose security over a true democracy most of the time.
ReplyDeleteKimberly Clegg 100.03
I agree with a few points made about the government. The government doesn't want citizens to know what is really being discussed at the White House. They only release certain knowledge that they think will benefit them to be known. I feel like in general the government does things that will ultimately benefit the elite not the citizens.
ReplyDeleteMaryam Khan
PSCI 100.04
I do agree with some points of the government. 9/11 opened a huge door for our government to do just about anything they wanted to. Americans wanted some sort of justice and the government used that towards their advantage. I want to say if someone is directly doing harm to yourself then any action should be permissible. However, each situation is different and needs to be viewed in such a way. The president should have the power to break US laws to an extent. That extent will probably never have a defined lines. I have the right to protect myself and break laws if need be. There is a tipping point to how much freedom Americans will give up. Its happened before and we had a revolution. Im just not sure where or how close we are to that point.
ReplyDeleteCody Barrett
PSCI 100.04
I do agree with some points of government. After 9/11 i believe we gave up some of our freedom due to some people worrying about security. I think that Americans did want some form of justice due to certain situations. But the president really doesn't want us to know what's really going on inside they just give us brief information about anything that we should look out for such as terrorist, and attacks.
ReplyDeleteKevin Williams
100.04
Yes, the points above do make it seem that the US is becoming - if not already - a managed democracy. Sept. 11 has become a mythological day, people are not allowed to even discuss being against the war on terror without being called "Anti-American," most American citizens are politically apathetic adn do not participate unless they are pushed to come out to vote for the president. Americans, in general, do seem to feel morally priviledged compared to other countries.
ReplyDeleteI think there should be a limit to the amount of obstruction the President can do to the laws he is supposed to uphold. Without some type of limits, it would just run into a type of totalitarian government and no one would have a private life. I think the government should not be able to break laws that it has laid down in the name of American security. Our security is important but not important enough to strip someone of all their freedoms as a US citizen.
Alex Bentley Psci 100.03
I think the president should have limitiations on what he can do legally, but on the other hand, he should be able to do what he needs to do to keep this country and the people in it safe. If there is no reason for a law to be broken then thats wrong. Also the president should not be able to decide this on his own.
ReplyDeleteMorgan McDOnald 100.04
These are some very good points. And i agree totally that America is a managed Democracy. I highly disagree with the fact that the president can break the laws but us citizens can not. I understand the president might try to break the laws to keep us dafe as citizens but i do not believe it is right for the president to break laws. The government i feel keeps way to many secretes from the citizens. I want to know what they know..
ReplyDeleteAron Shiley 100.03
I do agree with some most of the points made by Wolin. It seems that America does fall under a lot of the characteristics of a managed democracy. Maybe it is only a matter of time before the people of our nation become so docile that a leader comes in and tries to change how things in America. There are probably thousands of other theorists and political analysts that say different things about the type of government we have and I am sure they will have characteristics that I would also agree with. I don’t believe that there is anything mythological about September 11. The events that took place that day did happen and if people want to attach some kind of religious story to that day to help get passed the evil acts that took place then so be it. I don’t think that Americans should be morally privileged. We shouldn’t hurt others in the name of citizens that have died for our country. I think that American turn a blind eye to a lot of the things that take place and that’s why our government gets away with the things they do, ignorance is bliss so to speak. I don’t know how to answer the question, to save ourselves are all actions permissible. I think there is always fine print when it comes to rules. As long as the President has enough knowledge to act the president should take whatever means necessary to keep Americans safe. I don’t think we need to sacrifice our freedoms for security.
ReplyDeleteDanielle Francesconi psci 100:3
I agree with some of the points.I think that the president should have the right to break the laws only if it benefits America as a whole. If the president just went out breaking laws just because he could then thats a different subject and he should be held accountable. I agree with Jordan that our government does have characteristics of a totalitarian government but it doesnt mean we are one. Kiana Weller 100:05
ReplyDelete